Applause during MASS

Shallom

Is applause appropriate during the Mass?

Regards

Hello and shalom..

Applause during Mass is inappropriate unless it has been given permission by the Bishop to applaud during a Charismatic Mass. Applause during a regular solemn Mass is only applicable when there is an Ordination, or as to welcome a visiting priest / religious to join in the Mass.

Pax.

Hi HT, Salam Damai

Sia ada attend satu mass dulu di satu church and ketika waktu salam damai tu, koir bertepuk tangan (ikut rentak musik) disusuli oleh para umat. Adakah waktu ini (salam damai) dibenarkan oleh Gereja?

Dalam soal Misa Karismatik..selama ini sia tertanya tanya, adakah Misa Karismatik ini adalah salah satu Catholic Traditional? off topic sikit

"It is not fitting for the servant to be applauded in his master's house" -- Pope St. Pius X


Regards

Salam Damai Popcorn..

Ya. Misa karismatik dibenarkan untuk bertepuk tangan, dengan syarat perbuatan sedemikian telah dipersetujui dan dibenarkan oleh Uskup atau pun rektor Gereja.

Quote :

Dalam soal Misa Karismatik..selama ini sia tertanya tanya, adakah Misa Karismatik ini adalah salah satu Catholic Traditional?

Untuk pengetahuan saudara/i, kita mempunyai dua jenis misa kudus - iaitu Tridentine Mass dan Novus Ordo Mass. Jika kita menghadiri Tridentine Mass / Solemn High Mass, sememangnya kita tidak dibenarkan untuk bertepuk tangan mengikut rentak muzik. (I mean, kan traditional mass semuanya pakai alat-alat muzik tradisional seperti organ. Mmg teda tempat untuk tepuk tangan).

Bagi Novus Ordo pula, Misa kudus dibawa dlm bentuk yang boleh dipakai oleh masyarakat di mana ianya diraikan. Termasuklah pujian dan penyembahan dan juga muzik yang rancak yg akan melibatkan tepuk tangan. Misa Karismatik termasuk di dalam Novus Ordo Mass. Tepuk tangan mengikut muzik di dalam misa merupakan satu cara org2 Yahudi menyembah Tuhan mereka menurut Kitab Perjanjian Lama. Untuk pengetahuan, Misa Karismatik dipersetujui oleh 3 Paus iaitu Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul II dan Pope Benedict XVI (boleh dibaca di internet).

Quote :

"It is not fitting for the servant to be applauded in his master's house" -- Pope St. Pius X

Ya. Ini benar. But read the quote once again. It referred there as 'servant' meaning 'all of us' termasuklah Paderi dan Communion ministers. Cuma perlu difahami bahawa semasa saudara/i nampak org bertepuk tangan, mereka sedang menyanyikan lagu2 yang memuji Tuhan, bukan? Dan bukan bertepuk tangan utk Paderi atau siapa2 manusia di dalam gereja. 'Sebab Tuhan sahaja layak dipuji'.

Namun, tidak ada di dalam Cathecism of The Catholic Church (CCC) mau pun General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) yang menghalang kita daripada bertepuk tangan semasa menyanyikan lagu2 pujian di dalam misa.

Harap ini membantu.

Pax.

Hi HT, God be with us.

Nampaknya kita sahaja yang bersembang sembang ni...hehehe

Novus Ordo..Sia ada google N.O dan banyak yang sia dapat namun masih dalam pencarian. Kalau dilihat dari pendapat2 para apologist, ramai juga yang tidak bersetuju dengan N.O atau New Mass ini. Tapi walaubagaimanapun, itu pendapat mereka. Sia pula tak nampak kenyataan yang mengatakan Misa Karismatik adalah tergolong dalam N.O ini. Tolong jelaskan.TQ

Human_Torch wrote:

Ya. Ini benar. But read the quote once again. It referred there as 'servant' meaning 'all of us' termasuklah Paderi dan Communion ministers. Cuma perlu difahami bahawa semasa saudara/i nampak org bertepuk tangan, mereka sedang menyanyikan lagu2 yang memuji Tuhan, bukan? Dan bukan bertepuk tangan utk Paderi atau siapa2 manusia di dalam gereja. 'Sebab Tuhan sahaja layak dipuji'.

"Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy, because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment." -- Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)

Actually, Mass is only and always about Christ. Jesus doesn't need our applause. He needs our devotion and praise.

Human_Torch wrote:

Namun, tidak ada di dalam Cathecism of The Catholic Church (CCC) mau pun General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) yang menghalang kita daripada bertepuk tangan semasa menyanyikan lagu2 pujian di dalam misa.

Actually there is...
Sacred silence also, as part of the celebration, is to be observed at the designated times. Its purpose, however, depends on the time it occurs in each part of the celebration. Thus within the Act of Penitence and again after the invitation to pray, all recollect themselves; but at the
conclusion of a reading or the homily, all meditate briefly on what they have heard; then afterCommunion, they praise and pray to God in their hearts.

Even before the celebration itself, it is commendable that silence to be observed in the church, in the sacristy, in the vesting room, and in adjacent areas, so that all may dispose themselves tocarry out the sacred action in a devout and fitting manner. (GIRM no.45)

Anyway, is there anything in the Catechism or Canon Law (or more appropriately the GIRM) that prescribes or allows applause during mass?

It should not be assumed as permissible just because the GIRM is silent on the matter.

Regards
Si Popcorn yang cute...

Hi Popcorn.

About Charismatic mass, you can go to this website where there's a good explanation of the Charismatic Mass.

http://www.dpsrfd.org/Charismatic%20Renewal/Other%20Useful%20Information.htm

Good reference on the GIRM. It is well defined, that silence is important during mass. But as it was mentioned in the lines itself,

'Sacred silence also, as part of the celebration, is to be observed at the designated times';

'but at the
conclusion of a reading or the homily, all meditate briefly on what they have heard; then afterCommunion, they praise and pray to God in their hearts.'

Menurut posting saudara/i popcorn yg sebelumnya, saudara/i bertanyakan tentang para umat bertepuk tangan sewaktu Salam Damai. So, bagi saya, pada waktu ini adalah bukan 'designated times' pada misa. Tetapi, seperti yang saya katakan di posting sebelumnya, terpulanglah kepada Bishop atau Rektor gereja untuk membenarkan tepuk tangan sewaktu dalam misa Kudus. Tambahan pula, GIRM No.45 tidak pula mengatakan bahawa tepuk tangan adalah dilarang dlm Misa Kudus.

Quote :

"Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy, because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment." -- Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)

Refer to the bold words. In my previous posting, I did mention that the applausing/clapping was meant for God and not the Priest/religious or any other human beings in the church.

Quote :

Actually, Mass is only and always about Christ. Jesus doesn't need our applause. He needs our devotion and praise.

Well, this depends on the community itself. If applausing/clapping of hands is part of their way of praising, who are we to hold them from doing that kan..? Isn't applausing a way of we praising God? Seperti mana Novus Ordo Mass yg diraikan mengikut bahasa Ibunda dan adat sesuatu tempat (vernacular), sememangnya ia tidak melanggar tradisi Roman Katoliki kita. Jika saudara/i pernah nampak misa kudus diraikan di benua Afrika, misa kudus mereka jauh lebih meriah (include clapping of hands, dancing, etc) daripada apa yang saudara/i boleh lihat di negara kita sendiri. (These, I don't need to give you an internet link or any references, you can find it by yourself) Namun, mereka masih mempunyai masa tertentu untuk duduk diam untuk berdoa dan refleksi di dalam misa.

Quote :

Anyway, is there anything in the Catechism or Canon Law (or more appropriately the GIRM) that prescribes or allows applause during mass?

It should not be assumed as permissible just because the GIRM is silent on the matter.

The GIRM has this (GIRM No.40):

40. Great importance should therefore be attached to the use of singing in the celebration of the Mass, with due consideration for the culture of the people and abilities of each liturgical assembly. Although it is not always necessary (e.g., in weekday Masses) to sing all the texts that are of themselves meant to be sung, every care should be taken that singing by the ministers and the people is not absent in celebrations that occur on Sundays and on holy days of obligation.

And to add on that, here's a bible verse:

Oh clap your hands, all ye peoples; Shout unto God with the voice of triumph(Psalm 47:1).

Harap ini membantu.

Pax.

Salam Damai HT,

Human_Torch wrote:

About Charismatic mass, you can go to this website where there's a good explanation of the Charismatic Mass.

http://www.dpsrfd.org/Charismatic%20Renewal/Other%20Useful%20Information.htm.

terima kasi HT...saya juga melihat dari pandangan sudut yang lain.

Human_Torch wrote:

Menurut posting saudara/i popcorn yg sebelumnya, saudara/i bertanyakan tentang para umat bertepuk tangan sewaktu Salam Damai. So, bagi saya, pada waktu ini adalah bukan 'designated times' pada misa. Tetapi, seperti yang saya katakan di posting sebelumnya, terpulanglah kepada Bishop atau Rektor gereja untuk membenarkan tepuk tangan sewaktu dalam misa Kudus. Tambahan pula, GIRM No.45 tidak pula mengatakan bahawa tepuk tangan adalah dilarang dlm Misa Kudus.

where it can be appropriated during Holy Mass? Who makes the rules? Are there rules? Would each parish priest make the decision on his own to applause or not? Isn't it up to the Bishop's? or GIRM? but as I said before, it should not be assumed as permissible just because the GIRM is silent on the matter.

Human_Torch wrote:

Refer to the bold words. In my previous posting, I did mention that the applausing/clapping was meant for God and not the Priest/religious or any other human beings in the church.

Jesus doesn't need our applause. He needs our devotion and praise.

Human_Torch wrote:

Jika saudara/i pernah nampak misa kudus diraikan di benua Afrika, misa kudus mereka jauh lebih meriah (include clapping of hands, dancing, etc) daripada apa yang saudara/i boleh lihat di negara kita sendiri. (These, I don't need to give you an internet link or any references, you can find it by yourself) Namun, mereka masih mempunyai masa tertentu untuk duduk diam untuk berdoa dan refleksi di dalam misa..

Human_Torch wrote:

The GIRM has this (GIRM No.40):
40. Great importance should therefore be attached to the use of singing in the celebration of the Mass, with due consideration for the culture of the people and abilities of each liturgical assembly. Although it is not always necessary (e.g., in weekday Masses) to sing all the texts that are of themselves meant to be sung, every care should be taken that singing by the ministers and the people is not absent in celebrations that occur on Sundays and on holy days of obligation.
Pax.

Are you trying to say that clapping hand during Holy Mass is our culture? Or culture from Africa Selatan or culture from protestant and we are free to follow because clapping hand is happening? Anyway, GIRM 40 never say...we can applaude during Holy Mass. Applause isn't wrong in itself. It's just not appropriate during Holy Mass.

Bagi saya kan HT...secara jujurnya, dancing and clapping hand is only an expression on our emotion and not praising HIM. It just like, "hey people, look at me, I m dancing, I m clapping louder than you!..etc". This is another thread la. Yang suda lepas tu.

Regards

Hi Popcorn,

Well, I've told everything that I know and believe, but it's up to you whether you want to believe it or not. If you think that applausing is inappropriate during Mass, you've got a point there but not exactly 100% correct. And just because GIRM is silent in the matter, it doesn't mean that it cannot be done. Mcm saudara/i popcorn pun bilang - 'Jesus doesn't need our applause. He needs our devotion and praise' and yet in the GIRM and CCC itself, tidak ada pun text yang bagitau yg Jesus hanya perlu devosi dan pujian dan bukan tepukan. I've mentioned a bible verse there, tidak tau la kalo saudara/i ada baca ka tidak (Psalm 47:1).

Kalo Bishop bagi kebenaran kita bertepuk tangan menyanyikan lagu pujian, kenapa pula kita tidak buat kan? I know this because the Bishop of the Diocese of where I am now himself suda bagi kebenaran buat misa karismatik, so sia teda apa mo komen.. He only asks us to not emit the important Mass parts. If it's effective to attract the congregation especially the youths, how good can it be?

Quote :

Are you trying to say that clapping hand during Holy Mass is our culture? Or culture from Africa Selatan or culture from protestant and we are free to follow because clapping hand is happening?

Ahaks..bukan Afrika Selatan ja buat gitu k...Seluruh Katolik Afrika buat macam tu..

To be exact, the Apostles themselves filled with joy when they received the Holy Spirit. FYI, The Apostles were Jews, and to know how Jews praise God with their culture, read the early books of the Old Testament. Just because you saw Protestants praise in very laudible voices, doesn't mean that that is their culture and not Catholics'.

Quote :

Bagi saya kan HT...secara jujurnya, dancing and clapping hand is only an expression on our emotion and not praising HIM. It just like, "hey people, look at me, I m dancing, I m clapping louder than you!..etc".

Well, that's your opinion. Everyone has their own opinions. Pada pendapat saya pula, how could someone who is in great presence of God be saying "hey people, look at me, I m dancing, I m clapping louder than you!..etc". Pernah saudara/i popcorn jumpa org seperti ini? Ataupun ini hanya datang daripada pemikiran sendiri? As Catholics, we should think outside the box.

Quote :

Jesus doesn't need our applause. He needs our devotion and praise.

Can you give me any reference(s) on whereabouts you got the statement above?

What I can say is that go and find (if possible) a parish priest, ataupun org2 yang berpengalaman. Ask them what clapping during singing praises are all about. I don't blame you if you're not used to be in such Masses. But please do not say that it's wrong to clap your hands during mass when His Excellency Bishop had already approved it a long time ago. If 3 Popes had already approve such acts (Charismatic), how can we say that it's wrong.

Anyway Popcorn, I respect your opinion. But I can't say that your opinion is correct or not, usable or unusable. Everyone has their own way of praising God. If people prefers clapping hands even during singing of The Sign Of Peace, let them be. It's their comfort way of doing so.

Harap ini membantu. I don't want to exaggerate sampai keluar topik mahupun melibatkan posting sblmnya. I believe what I believe, and I believe because I've experienced it, and I experienced it because I opened up my heart. You find some answers by yourself. Listen what others have to say with open hearts. God has given us the ability to think what is suitable and what isn't.

-end-

Pax. (Peace)

hi popcorn,

I cant help notice when you ask this question, it seems that you've have had your stand in this matter and asking it juz to know whether others agree to you as well.

anyway, this is juz my opinion on some part of what you're saying. im glad when you said Jesus needs our devotion and praise but He never restrict us to what way we should devote and praise Him. David also set an example of praising The Lord by dancing, singing and shaking his tambourine. as for me, i will always jump and shout as well as claping my hands for Him if it is to glorify Him.

Applause or clapping hands during mass has the meaning of celebrating (eg: wedding), acceptance (eg: during sign of peace) and also offering (eg: singing of songs / hymn).

Why would we have piano, drums, guitars, mics and a whole lot of sounds if it was not meant for praising our God? and if we can use instruments to praise and glorify Him (during mass), then why cant we use hands to clap, mouth to shout as well as feet to jump for Him (as long as it didnt disturb our neighbour)? my opinion is not meant for arguments. its juz for sharing, and i hope others willing to share too. we share because we care and i wish that mr/ms popcorn will not stop sharing.

we do have different opinions in some things but we also know that it is for The Lord, Jesus and Holy Spirit that we said it out. so let's not divide ourselves on whos right and whos wrong but unite everyone on one person we serve - Jesus.

:-)

holla people....

nice topic.

tp bikin bingung kan juga? hahahaha

ok, lets digg...

applause means we are for one, congratulating of something right? The act of applauding; approbation and praise publicly expressed by the clapping of hands, stamping or tapping of the feet, acclamation, huzzas, or other means; marked commendation.

now, lets digg praise.

In christianity, praise is an impassioned exaltation of God (ie. a Supreme Being, or Creation), typically as an expression of gratitude for one's life or being. In other cases, praise may be tied to more situational aspects such as health and prosperity.

next, Holy Mass..

The Mass is the Eucharistic celebration in the Latin liturgical rites of the Roman Catholic Church, in Old Catholic Churches, in the Anglo-Catholic tradition of Anglicanism, and in some largely High Church Lutheran regions, including the Scandinavian and Baltic countries.

and since this topic is about sounds....

The Mass, a form of sacred musical composition, is a choral composition that sets the fixed portions of the Eucharistic liturgy (principally that of the Roman Catholic Church, the Churches of the Anglican Communion, and also the Lutheran Church) to music. Most Masses are settings of the liturgy in Latin, the traditional language of the Roman Catholic Church, but there are a significant number written in the languages of non-Catholic countries where vernacular worship has long been the norm. For example, there are many Masses (often called "Communion Services") written in English for the Church of England.

Masses can be a cappella, for the human voice alone, or they can be accompanied by instrumental obbligatos up to and including a full orchestra. Many Masses, especially later ones, were never intended to be performed during the celebration of an actual mass.

so by this kita dapat masuk dalam siiiikit about this clapping and applauding thing rite? meh bincang...

Thanks for the good info, Blacken. Mmg baca buku ko ni kan..

I do believe most Holy Mass are solemn ones. But it depends on what culture we're in. Early forms of Mass are founded in Europe and so the world are standardized by for example the Roman Catholic Church follows the Latin Rite.

But since Pope John XXIII (ngam ka ni angka roman sia ni? hehe..) had given the permission to celebrate the Holy Mass in a vernacular way, i.e. according to one country's culture, somewhere somehow the clapping came in because some culture did so, like those Roman Catholic churches in Africa.

Going back to the post, the thread creator mentioned about clapping hands during sign of peace. Never was written in any document that clapping hands during sign of peace is impermissible. According to Latin Rite, the areas which are needed to be in complete silence (and in prayer and full attention) were Observance prior to Mass celebration, Liturgy of the Word, Consecration of the Holy Eucharist, and prayer after communion. Although these are the mandatory areas to observe silence, parishioners are obliged to keep silence when they're not singing.

Clapping hands during sign of peace is just a gesture to show that everyone inside the church is at peace. Just like the saying 'If you're happy and you know it - clap your hands' or the popular hymn, which goes like 'Shout unto God with a voice of triumph! Praise Him! Praise Him! Shout unto God with a voice of praise! Clap your hands all you people'. When there's peace, there's happiness.

Hope this helps. Kalo ada yg nda brapa faham English, inform ja sia supaya sia buli translate pi BM.

Pax.