Konsert SYD2 2007 di Sacred Heart Cathedral, KK

popcorn, whether u realise it or not... u're really doin' a good job in making this forum 'ALIVE' hehe.. I even sense some emotions here & there *wink* hehe

interesting indeed...

First thing first, sa pun mo disclaimer juga *giggles*... "ni pendapat sa sebagai pihak berkecuali yang tidak dapat hadir pada malam konsert tersebut. So, in a way, pendapat saya adalah SDN. BHD. dan bukannya JV atau dlm bahasa melayunya Perkongsian"

Popcorn, i see ur point (enuff said). "tarian yang terkeluar landasan keretapi" (LOL)...funny description... In a way, I can imagine that (imagination that comes thru experience)... Watever it is, everyone who believe in HIM, wud wanna praise HIM whole heartedly, & everyone who believe that they're praising HIM whole-heartedly is indeed Praising HIM...because they believe...(at least no one wud admit that they're praising HIM half-heartedly..rite?hehe).

Yet, there's no specifications in the level of shouts (teriakan) or the amounts of movements (tarian/lompatan) that can be made when we praise HIM. Teriakan dan tarian kan lumrah konsert.. without having these so-called 'lumrah', they wudn't called this a concert in the 1st place...

HT & BS my fren (i'm all smiles - not in a sarcastic way ahh! happy sa tgk kamu melayani dgn sesungguhnya ahaks...). Anyway & In a way, popcorn did pointed out something that can be pondered upon (especially to those who are called to be fishers of men)...True indeed that 'tarian & teriakan' can attract the youths especially the youths of this generation. But that is not the only way how they can be attracted..if that happen to be 'a fact', it's going to be a sad truth...

Hi HaloGal,

Yes, Popcorn is indeed doin' a great job in making this forum 'ALIVE' cuz that's what he wants so do everybody (read other posting)..

HaloGal wrote:

Watever it is, everyone who believe in HIM, wud wanna praise HIM whole heartedly, & everyone who believe that they're praising HIM whole-heartedly is indeed Praising HIM...because they believe...(at least no one wud admit that they're praising HIM half-heartedly..rite?hehe).

Anyway HaloGal i would like to quote your posting in case "someone" missed it...

HaloGal wrote:

Yet, there's no specifications in the level of shouts (teriakan) or the amounts of movements (tarian/lompatan) that can be made when we praise HIM. Teriakan dan tarian kan lumrah konsert.. without having these so-called 'lumrah', they wudn't called this a concert in the 1st place...

Becareful when you want to make statement like this, you might just or will be getting comment/s. Trust me.. especially the "lumrah" and "concert" part..

HaloGal wrote:

HT & BS my fren (i'm all smiles - not in a sarcastic way ahh! happy sa tgk kamu melayani dgn sesungguhnya ahaks...). Anyway & In a way, popcorn did pointed out something that can be pondered upon (especially to those who are called to be fishers of men)...True indeed that 'tarian & teriakan' can attract the youths especially the youths of this generation. But that is not the only way how they can be attracted..if that happen to be 'a fact', it's going to be a sad truth...

HaloGal, yes, i somehow believe that Popcorn has pointed out something that can be pondered upon, but try to read this quote below, taken from my previous posting..

BiteSuchi wrote:

Saudara/i, again sy nak katakan, it's an option not the only way, kita mesti mau tengok persekitaran.. ini belia muda, mereka masih lagi cari identity mereka sendiri, biar mereka explore all expect of life dulu, the more experience you have, the wiser you become..

Kami memang sedar dan tahu yg ini adalah satu cara dan bukannya satu-satunya jalan untuk menarik minat belia. This is not going to happen don't worry, bilik LOM, Rosari dan Misa Kudus tidak akan kosong punya..

Christianity tidak akan pupus punya la selagi ada orang yang memberi peluang untuk belia-belia masa kini untuk berkembang mengikut peredaran masa dan seadanya mereka.. of coz tradisi tidak akan dilupakan..

Hidup Belia!!

Hello HaloGal. Thanks for your views.

Yes. I myself do agree that shouting and dancing are not the primary ways of attracting the youths. As I mentioned in my previous entries, there are many ways of P&W and it all depends on the individual - whether he/she wants it contemporarily or contemplatively.

Just to point out - the topic is about the concert, and as you said mmg lumrah kalo konsert ada teriakan dan tarian.

All called to be fishers of men. We did not specify that in order to be fishers of men, we must shout and dance only. There's a time and place for everything; there's a time when we make a joyful noise and there's a time for us to reflect in silence.

But in a time of modern society, we have to compete with the world in order to attract youths.

Pax.

Salam Damai semua...

yllen wrote:

pls bear in mind, gerakan TARIAN & TERIAKAN hanyalah satu ALTERNATIF dlm kerja2 pelayanan kita. sia rasa tiada antara kita d sini yg mencadangkan 'hyperactive movement' sebagai sesuatu yg 'wajib' dilakukan utk 'menarik minat' belia2 kita. setiap bentuk pelayanan & aktiviti yg dirancang haruslah mengikut kesesuaian setempat.

'dunia belia' adalah sesuatu yg sangat kompleks.. sia rasa kita di sini adalah antara yg bertuah kerana dianugerahkan Tuhan kebolehan utk 'berfikir panjang'. tetapi mcmana dgn belia2 kita di luar sana? bagaimana kita mau mereka mengenali Yesus sekiranya kita cuma menggunakan cara2 pendekatan yg 'they're not comfortable with', & yg mereka rasa janggal. belia2 yg sudah sedia aktif d gereja mgkin lebih mudah menerima, tp how about those yg belum lagi menerima YESUS dalam hidup mereka? sia percaya antara yg hadir d konsert malam tu. ada sebilangan belia yg '1st time' datang kerana dibawa oleh kawan dorang.

......... ada belia yg 'dari luar' yg telah terbuka hati utk melayani d gereja setelah mengikuti aktiviti2 belia gereja yg 'berwajahkan keduniawian'. of course, they may started off with the wrong reasons, tp bukankah kita sebagai pelayan2 belia d tempat masing2 yg harus membawa mereka 'to be on the right track?'

tapi apa2 pun, bagi sia yg paling penting adalah kesederhanaan dlm semua segi. ttg 'suka @ tidak', terpulang kepada perspektif individu. & i take all this views & 'debates' sebagai peluang kita utk saling melengkapi dlm pelayanan kita masing2. kau salah, sia kasi betul; sia salah, kau kasi betul; dia salah, kita kasi betul....

above all things, JESUS is the One that lead us in our wisdom...

I must agree with yllen. You make it in diff way. Actually we are talking about the concept of the concert and not the activity done by any church.

BiteSuchi wrote:

Yeah, i have to agree with HT, i think you're facing the issue of being charismatically praising. But i don't blame you, we're all Son of God, He still love you for being that way, and i believe He still love US for being THIS way....

Give me 1 reason why you should blame me for this.

BiteSuchi wrote:

Saudara/i, it's an option okay! Ini adalah belia yang kita persoalkan di sini bukan beliau. You once like them before right? Oh, i think mungkin zaman saudara/i contemporary praise and worship belum wujud..i don't know, HT tolong check utk sy.. or maybe saudara/i boleh jelaskan apakah difinisi saudara/i tentang "keghairahan utk memuji tuhan" (jawapan sendiri bukan secara general).....

Option? Holy Spirit is for all whether you are youth or senior citizen. Adakah contemporary praise and worship wujud pada zaman belia saya? ahahahahahah you are funny. I m still young like you. Saya BELIA! Jawapan untuk anda...yes! there is no music called "contemporary praise and worship" during my time. Do you feel better now? Anyway this is your argument your own opinion, not HT. Keghairahan untuk memuji Tuhan haruskah diluahkan dengan teriakan (maybe I should change the word to "screaming"). King David dan the others dahulu memuji TUHAN with JOY not for FUN. Don't make fun with our prayer. Sing to God on High...don't make fun on it.

BiteSuchi wrote:

Bagaimana saudara/i tahu yg mereka itu berteriakan/berlompatan menghayati lagu atau tidak? Bagaimana saudara/i tahu yg mereka dance, shout and jump tu for nothing? Pernah saudara/i tanya mereka? Bagi saya, saya pernah tanya, saya tahu jawapannya, saya sendiri melakukannya dan saya sendiri merasakannya.

How do you know they dance, shout/scream and jump for joy? Or maybe the do it for fun....? we don't know. Maybe some of you really Sing for JOY, Dance for JOY and Shout for JOY....Praise JESUS!!! How about the other?

Salam Damai...

Salam Damai semua...

Human_Torch wrote:

Jika saudara/i merasakan bahawa teriakan dan lompat2/menari-nari itu tidak sesuai untuk menarik para belia, cuba nyatakan cara lain yang boleh menarik para belia pada masa kini..

You indirectly suggest that thats the only way to attract our youth. Do you? For me, there is a lot of activity our youth can do. Just one thing, our youth must change....their mind set. I love to see our youth to do charity works. I still remember the SYD1 theme....

Yllen wrote:

...i take all this views & 'debates' sebagai peluang kita utk saling melengkapi dlm pelayanan kita masing2...

Yup! ini yang kita mahu di sini. Apa yang baik keluar dari views & "debate" kita ini, kita share dengan belia di luar. Yang tak baiknya kita biarkan di dalam forum sebagai renung-renungan.
Sebenarnya saya susah hati juga hendak memperdebatkan semua ini. Belia kita muda, susah mereka untuk menerima tamparan dari sesama belia. Tetapi, kalau kita ingin cuba mengelak setiap persoalaan iman, maka lebih baik kita berhenti bercakap tentang DIA. Rite?

Admin, shall we continue or we stop?

Dear Si Popcorn,

Quote :

Human_Torch wrote:

Jika saudara/i merasakan bahawa teriakan dan lompat2/menari-nari itu tidak sesuai untuk menarik para belia, cuba nyatakan cara lain yang boleh menarik para belia pada masa kini..

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
You indirectly suggest that thats the only way to attract our youth. Do you? For me, there is a lot of activity our youth can do. Just one thing, our youth must change....their mind set. I love to see our youth to do charity works. I still remember the SYD1 theme....

FYI, I didn't indirectly suggest that my previous statement is the only way to attract youths. I was specifying on Youths during a P&W session. If you don't mind, read my post again, carefully. The previous paragraph interconnects with this one you quoted. Of course, there are many, many, many things our youths can do. I did mention kan, there's always time and place for everything.

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Belia kita muda, susah mereka untuk menerima tamparan dari sesama belia.

Are you speaking this on behalf of the youths or behalf of yourself?

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Tetapi, kalau kita ingin cuba mengelak setiap persoalaan iman, maka lebih baik kita berhenti bercakap tentang DIA. Rite?

Why should we stop talking about HIM? He's our God. We must make Him known to all, esp. youths. WHY are you saying that it is better to stop talking about HIM just to avoid questions about faith? Are you ashamed of the Lord? Faith is something you learn and grow with yourself in body, mind and spirit. I don't think it's a good idea for us to stop talking about faith.

***

According to your posts, you were stressing on the inappropriate use of 'teriakan and tarian' in singing praise to God. Let me show you some terms that would separate our actions from the worldly ideas.

Teriakan - Christians don't 'teriak or 'scream'. We 'sorak' or 'shout'.

Tarian - I don't have to explain this one. It's in the book of Psalms itself.

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
How do you know they dance, shout/scream and jump for joy? Or maybe the do it for fun....? we don't know. Maybe some of you really Sing for JOY, Dance for JOY and Shout for JOY....

I'm sorry but we still haven't receive the answer from you from the question we asked in previously vice-versa-ed version. We asked you the question and you twisted the question back to us.

Quote :

BiteSuchi wrote:
Bagi saya, saya pernah tanya, saya tahu jawapannya, saya sendiri melakukannya dan saya sendiri merasakannya.

Neither I can deny what BiteSuchi had mentioned. I've been there and done that. And why are we still with our own stand? It's because we believe and we have the faith to believe. And, we personally believe that if we lie or just making it up, it's not going to get us anywhere.

Question re-run:

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
How do you know they dance, shout/scream and jump for joy? Or maybe the do it for fun....? we don't know. Maybe some of you really Sing for JOY, Dance for JOY and Shout for JOY....

According to thefreedictionary.com:

JOY -
1.
a. Intense and especially ecstatic or exultant happiness.
b. The expression or manifestation of such feeling.

2.
A source or an object of pleasure or satisfaction

FUN -
1. A source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure.
2. Enjoyment; amusement
3. Playful, often noisy, activity.

Don't these two words go together?? If you're NOT enjoying the fun, then you're just doing it on two reasons - Of routine or of to impress others. Please be extremely careful with terms, especially English terms. They do have similar meaning but each of them has their own specifications. If you're not sure with jargon words, then don't simply use it. You might end up making people misunderstood.

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Adakah contemporary praise and worship wujud pada zaman belia saya? ahahahahahah you are funny. I m still young like you.

How did you know that you're about the same age as BiteSuchi??

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Saya BELIA! Jawapan untuk anda...yes! there is no music called "contemporary praise and worship" during my time.

Tell me (if you don't mind) what time or era are living in? Or in what year were you born? According to my research and readings, contemporary music began back in the late 1960s. Dari zaman bapa mama sia masi remaja lagi sudah ada contemporary P&W. What do you mean by 'no music called contemporary p&w during your time? Don't you live in this era?

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Keghairahan untuk memuji Tuhan haruskah diluahkan dengan teriakan (maybe I should change the word to "screaming")

Did any of us here previously mentioned this? BS said it's an OPTION, not compulsory. Your word 'haruskah' made is sound like it was made compulsory. WE didn't say it's compulsory. For your information, it's not only BS who mentioned this, but yllen and I as well. Please, reread my (HT) and yllen's posts, if you don't mind.

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
I aggre with you yllen BUT adakah teriakan dan tarian sahaja yang mampu membawa mereka? Jika ya, apa kata kalau kita teruskan melakukan aktiviti yang banyak teriakan dan lompatan? Lama kelamaan bilik LOM, Rosary dan Misa Kudus akan kosong. hehehehe

Quote :

BiteSuchi wrote:
Saudara/i, again sy nak katakan, it's an option not the only way, kita mesti mau tengok persekitaran.. ini belia muda, mereka masih lagi cari identity mereka sendiri, biar mereka explore all expect of life dulu, the more experience you have, the wiser you become.. Jangan susah saudara/i, bilik LOM, Rosary dan Misa Kudus tidak akan kosong punya, kerana belia-belia ni pasti akan membanjirinya jika masanya suda tiba..have faith..

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Option? Holy Spirit is for all whether you are youth or senior citizen. Adakah contemporary praise and worship wujud pada zaman belia saya? ahahahahahah you are funny.

Statement saudara/i popcorn mcm tidak menjawab soalan/komen. Cuba baca betul2. Si BS bilang it's an option mo choose whether to praise God 'guna teriakan dan tarian' or not. Mcm mana pula saudara/i buli come up with that statement (i.e. Holy Spirit is for all) Jawapan soalan no.2 ka ni??

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Don't make fun with our prayer. Sing to God on High...don't make fun on it.

We ourselves do not dare to make fun with prayers because it's God and us communicating. But we make prayers a fun thing to do so that all may enjoy this precious gift. (Again, please check your terms/phrase construction k..)

For the fourth time - it's up to individuals to choose what style to use to praise God. If you prefer contemplative style, then pigi lah contemplative worship. If you're into contemporary, then go lah contemporary style. Remember. God does not count on how loud your voice is or how solemn your bodily position is. He's more concerned on what our heart is saying.

A share from my secondary school lesson:
There are three main types of human beings in this world - Auditory, Visual and Kinesthetic. Auditory appreciates what he/she hears, Visual appreciates what he/she sees, and Kinesthetic appreciates something that involves bodily movement. According to research, 70% of all human beings are Kinesthetics (though there are some mixed-typed persons i.e. Auditory+Kinesthetic and Visual+Kinesthetic;). While Auditory and Visual shares between 10-15% respectively of all human population. And most kinesthetics are persons range from 14-30 years old. (Extracted from my student psychology course for Motivation year 2000)

I hope this will explain why most youth prefer something that involves bodily movement.
***
The term 'Catholic' derives from the greek word καθολικός (Katholikos) meaning general or universal.

It doesn't mean that it's UN-Catholic to do what you see those done in Protestant churches are applied in Catholic churches. It doesn't mean that if you see a Protestant/Born-Again churches do charismatic praising and you see our Church do the same thing, makes us UN-Catholic. For your information, ancient Christians (before the use of 'Catholic Church' term by Ignatius of Antioch in AD 107) in Israel, Palestine, Greece, Turkey, Syria, parts of Egypt and Mesapotamia are charismatic people.

The late Pope John Paul II in His first said mass after being elected Pope on October 22, 1978 said in his homily that Catholics living in this era should learn to accept new ideas in the guidance of the Holy Spirit our friend and Paraclete in order to face the situations in the world today. Having a closed-heart is the worst prison any human can go into.

Finally, kalo betul lah mmg ada org yg jerit dan menari tak tentu pasal for example waktu konsert pujian dan penyembahan, kami tidak buli bikin apa2. Kami tidak ada bagitau pun atau ajar youths buat begitu. Sama2 lah kita kasih betul itu individu kan. To say that youths jump and shout tak tentu pasal waktu konsert is something inaccurate.

Pax.

hebat,,, cukup hebat ooo sampai berverse-verse lagi... emmm memang anugerah itu kalu kita gunakan bagi mereka yang memerlukan pasti membantu lah... emm bangga ada belia macam korang... apa macam sekali pun biarkan individu yang berada di halaman ini terus meneliti dan mininjau-ninjau ya... takut-takut terlebih verse plak keluar hahahha anyway penat sia baca huhu but ok lah it awakening...

Shalom semua & Si Popcorn,

(Thanks HT for the awesome reply) Anyways..

BiteSuchi wrote:

Yeah, i have to agree with HT, i think you're facing the issue of being charismatically praising. But i don't blame you, we're all Son of God, He still love you for being that way, and i believe He still love US for being THIS way....

Si Popcorn wrote:

Give me 1 reason why you should blame me for this.

I NEVER blame you for this matter, TOLONG BACA BETUL-BETUL.. Sudah saya/kami terangkan pada awal-awal lagi, kami neutral, apa cara sekali pun kami lakukan untuk menyembah DIA, yang penting ia datang dari hati, seperti yang HT telah terangkan "He's more concerned on what our heart is saying." Bukan begitu?

But you're twisting everything around and going back to square one. Dan yg lebih menyedihkan lagi when you're asking us to stop talking about this matter and asking Admin to stop or continue. WHY??? let me quote from HT..

Human_Torch wrote:

Why should we stop talking about HIM? He's our God. We must make Him known to all, esp. youths. WHY are you saying that it is better to stop talking about HIM just to avoid questions about faith? Are you ashamed of the Lord? Faith is something you learn and grow with yourself in body, mind and spirit. I don't think it's a good idea for us to stop talking about faith.

Si Popcorn wrote:

I m still young like you. Saya BELIA! Jawapan untuk anda...yes! there is no music called "contemporary praise and worship" during my time. Do you feel better now?

Whoo..dude, please get your facts right la..at least kalau mau mempertahankan diri pun, biar la betul.. I think you don't have to please me nor the rest of us here. I think you're just pleasing yourself.

Si Popcorn wrote:

You indirectly suggest that thats the only way to attract our youth. Do you? For me, there is a lot of activity our youth can do. Just one thing, our youth must change....their mind set. I love to see our youth to do charity works. I still remember the SYD1 theme....

Ahaks... this is what you call real funny... do not, i say it again, DO NOT PUT WORDS TO OUR MOUTH... if you don't mind, read the our previous posting again, jangan main sembarang ja cakap.. See, you're twisting everything around. And yes! our youth must change, and when we change, we go foward not backward/rewind.

Si Popcorn wrote:

Option? Holy Spirit is for all whether you are youth or senior citizen. Adakah contemporary praise and worship wujud pada zaman belia saya? ahahahahahah you are funny.

Saudara/i lagi funny.. statement ini benar-benar tidak menjawab soalan dan tiada kaitan langsung pun.. tu la kan sy dah cakap, kalau mau mempertahankan diri pun biar la kena pada topiknya.. kalau mau masuk topik lain pun buat la posting baru..

Si Popcorn wrote:

How do you know they dance, shout/scream and jump for joy? Or maybe the do it for fun....? we don't know. Maybe some of you really Sing for JOY, Dance for JOY and Shout for JOY....Praise JESUS!!! How about the other?

Saudara/i, sampai bila pun ni topik inda ke mana kalau ia diputarbelitkan.. Saudara/i, janganlah kita menghakimi belia-belia kita ni sama ada mereka bersorak/lompat untuk Tuhan atau tidak, ianya sesuatu yang sangat peribadi pada setiap individu dan ianya antara kita dan Tuhan sahaja.

Si Popcorn wrote:

Don't make fun with our prayer. Sing to God on High...don't make fun on it.

We do not make fun of our prayers, but we make our prayers a fun thing to do..don't you see the difference??

Well you see popcorn, do accept that there are many ways we can pray.. i can accept your way and the way that i'm used to. No hal..

BS

sungguh menakjubkan... sampai sia pun terjuling mo baca anyway ini lah di kata berbicara secara sihat ya.... so teruskan lah perjuangan untuk bicara dengan topik lain plak ...........ala pasal Konsert jadi Holy spirit itu lah kesimpulan dia ... hehehhehe kita terus renung-renung ya...

p/s please ignore me in this conversation ya hehhehehe

Salam damai HT and BS...
Sabar...relex! kamu macam marah suda ni. Biar Roh Kudus menguasai kita.

Human_Torch wrote:

Are you speaking this on behalf of the youths or behalf of yourself?

Of course I am not talking on behalf of myself la.

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Tetapi, kalau kita ingin cuba mengelak setiap persoalaan iman, maka lebih baik kita berhenti bercakap tentang DIA. Rite?

Human_Torch wrote:

Why should we stop talking about HIM? He's our God. We must make Him known to all, esp. youths. WHY are you saying that it is better to stop talking about HIM just to avoid questions about faith? Are you ashamed of the Lord? Faith is something you learn and grow with yourself in body, mind and spirit. I don't think it's a good idea for us to stop talking about faith.?

First, do you really understand my statement? Have I said,” let’s stop talking about GOD?” NO! That’s why I am still here my dear friend. Not today but until the end of this website (if you don’t block me la). So, your next question is not relevant. That’s mean no need for me to answer.

Quote :

BiteSuchi wrote:
Bagi saya, saya pernah tanya, saya tahu jawapannya, saya sendiri melakukannya dan saya sendiri merasakannya.

allow me to qoute from haloGal...

haloGal wrote:

Watever it is, everyone who believe in HIM, wud wanna praise HIM whole heartedly, & everyone who believe that they're praising HIM whole-heartedly is indeed Praising HIM...because they believe...(at least no one wud admit that they're praising HIM half-heartedly..rite?hehe). .

Human_Torch wrote:

Neither I can deny what BiteSuchi had mentioned. I've been there and done that. And why are we still with our own stand? It's because we believe and we have the faith to believe. And, we personally believe that if we lie or just making it up, it's not going to get us anywhere..

you are rite. Stand for the thing we believe just like me. but we are not talking about myself, HT, BS or yllen only!

Human_Torch wrote:

According to thefreedictionary.com:

JOY -
1.
a. Intense and especially ecstatic or exultant happiness.
b. The expression or manifestation of such feeling.

2.
A source or an object of pleasure or satisfaction

FUN -
1. A source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure.
2. Enjoyment; amusement
3. Playful, often noisy, activity.

Don't these two words go together?? If you're NOT enjoying the fun, then you're just doing it on two reasons - Of routine or of to impress others. Please be extremely careful with terms, especially English terms. They do have similar meaning but each of them has their own specifications. If you're not sure with jargon words, then don't simply use it. You might end up making people misunderstood...

good..you are really good teacher. Joy, joyful, Joy to the world, Lina Joy….how about fun? Fun, funny, funniest, American funniest home video(laugh for the craze thing), Mr. Bean is funny but I can’t get any morale lesson from his act ….everything is for fun only. Ketawa sini ketawa sana lepas tu pulang kampis barait.

Human_Torch wrote:

How did you know that you're about the same age as BiteSuchi??

Tell me (if you don't mind) what time or era are living in? Or in what year were you born? According to my research and readings, contemporary music began back in the late 1960s. Dari zaman bapa mama sia masi remaja lagi sudah ada contemporary P&W. What do you mean by 'no music called contemporary p&w during your time? Don't you live in this era?...

I really don’t care how old is BS but I hope BS and you to be my friend. Will you? It’s not my problem anyway. You know the contemporary music start in late 1960, you know it rite? Don't tell me you never know. Then why you still ask me? You know the answer but still asking people?!!!! It's like you know JESUS is Lord but you still ask HIM, are you our lord? Are you trying to prove everybody that you know everything about music?

Human_Torch wrote:

Did any of us here previously mentioned this? BS said it's an OPTION, not compulsory. Your word 'haruskah' made is sound like it was made compulsory. WE didn't say it's compulsory. For your information, it's not only BS who mentioned this, but yllen and I as well. Please, reread my (HT) and yllen's posts, if you don't mind.?...

Option? How many option you have? Tell me.

Human_Torch wrote:

It doesn't mean that it's UN-Catholic to do what you see those done in Protestant churches are applied in Catholic churches. It doesn't mean that if you see a Protestant/Born-Again churches do charismatic praising and you see our Church do the same thing, makes us UN-Catholic. For your information, ancient Christians (before the use of 'Catholic Church' term by Ignatius of Antioch in AD 107) in Israel, Palestine, Greece, Turkey, Syria, parts of Egypt and Mesapotamia are charismatic people.....

Facts or your own opinion?

Human_Torch wrote:

The late Pope John Paul II in His first said mass after being elected Pope on October 22, 1978 said in his homily that Catholics living in this era should learn to accept new ideas in the guidance of the Holy Spirit our friend and Paraclete in order to face the situations in the world today. Having a closed-heart is the worst prison any human can go into......

and you suggest that the new ideas is this?

Human_Torch wrote:

Finally, kalo betul lah mmg ada org yg jerit dan menari tak tentu pasal for example waktu konsert pujian dan penyembahan, kami tidak buli bikin apa2. Kami tidak ada bagitau pun atau ajar youths buat begitu. Sama2 lah kita kasih betul itu individu kan. To say that youths jump and shout tak tentu pasal waktu konsert is something inaccurate....

Finally, you trying to admit that everything is not perfect in this world. … you really never teach them how to act unnecessarily during the concert. Who say you had? Tell me my friend! Nobody. It’s all out of your control. Most of our youth doesn’t know how to praise him accordingly. They simply tiru tiru gaya from any of the concert they saw. And its our duty to help them, rite? Please allow me to qoute from haloGal

haloGal wrote:

...... In a way, I can imagine that (imagination that comes thru experience)... Watever it is, everyone who believe in HIM, wud wanna praise HIM whole heartedly, & everyone who believe that they're praising HIM whole-heartedly is indeed Praising HIM...because they believe...(at least no one wud admit that they're praising HIM half-heartedly..rite?hehe).

Yet, there's no specifications in the level of shouts (teriakan) or the amounts of movements (tarian/lompatan) that can be made when we praise HIM. Teriakan dan tarian kan lumrah konsert.. without having these so-called 'lumrah', they wudn't called this a concert in the 1st place...

HT & BS my fren (i'm all smiles - not in a sarcastic way ahh! happy sa tgk kamu melayani dgn sesungguhnya ahaks...). Anyway & In a way, popcorn did pointed out something that can be pondered upon (especially to those who are called to be fishers of men)...True indeed that 'tarian & teriakan' can attract the youths especially the youths of this generation. But that is not the only way how they can be attracted..if that happen to be 'a fact', it's going to be a sad truth......

Salam Damai...

p/s: the seeker your comment are needed. tq

Dear Popcorn,

Sorry kalo ada terlepas emosi sini. I'm a human being k. But I just want to make things clear. FYI, the facts that I've quoted is not my own OK. I have tons of books here that I've extracted so that I could write on the facts.

And please tell us here why are you against teriakan and lompatan? Tell me, will that affect the minds of the youth?

Quote :

good..you are really good teacher. Joy, joyful, Joy to the world, Lina Joy….how about fun? Fun, funny, funniest, American funniest home video(laugh for the craze thing), Mr. Bean is funny but I can’t get any morale lesson from his act ….everything is for fun only. Ketawa sini ketawa sana lepas tu pulang kampis barait.

For your information, I'm not an English teacher; but am still a student; bukan English student juga k... Kenapa tiba2 ada 'Lina Joy' tu? Joy To The World? Marah ka ni sampai istilah yang tiada kaitan pun buli keluar? ahahahaha.
If you really watch Mr. Bean, some of the episodes have moral values. Itulah sbbnya kita perlu menghayati setiap apa yg kita lihat.

FUN - kan ada 2 jenis. Satu positive, satu negative. Here, I'm NOT talking about the negative fun. Kalo dilihat rancangan kanak2, bukankah itu kita panggil FUN? Kids like fun stuffs, so as to introduce them to something heavenly (i.e. God), kita pun perlu buat sesuatu yg FUN bukan? Same goes to our youths, kalo duniawi lagi FUN dari church and charity, mcm mana la mau tarik perhatian dorang? Cuba renung2 kan...

Quote :

Si Popcorn wrote:

I really don’t care how old is BS but I hope BS and you to be my friend. Will you? It’s not my problem anyway. You know the contemporary music start in late 1960, you know it rite? Don't tell me you never know. Then why you still ask me? You know the answer but still asking people?!!!! It's like you know JESUS is Lord but you still ask HIM, are you our lord? Are you trying to prove everybody that you know everything about music?

And look at this

Quote :

si popcorn wrote:
Saya BELIA! Jawapan untuk anda...yes! there is no music called "contemporary praise and worship" during my time.

Hahaha..did I say that saya ni maha mengetahui? I'm just showing you the facts. Tapi saudara/i yg tulis 'tidak ada contemporary' p&w music di zaman saudara/i. I'm asking you to reflect, not because that I know the answer already and I'm just testing you. My question you quoted is not necessarily to be answered anyway.

(Bah, kawan bah kita skrg ni. Cuma kita berdebat ja pada waktu ni..)

Quote :

Human_Torch wrote:
Did any of us here previously mentioned this? BS said it's an OPTION, not compulsory. Your word 'haruskah' made is sound like it was made compulsory. WE didn't say it's compulsory. For your information, it's not only BS who mentioned this, but yllen and I as well. Please, reread my (HT) and yllen's posts, if you don't mind.?...

Quote :

Si Popcorn wrote:
Option? How many option you have? Tell me.

You still didn't get what we've wrote. Tolong baca balik if you don't mind. Pusing2 ja ni statement. OPTION - BS indirectly mentioned in the first place ada 2 saja. Mau or tidak mau; contemporary or contemplative.

Quote :

Si Popcorn wrote:
Facts or your own opinion?

FYI again, they are facts ok. Sia bukan suka2 tulis tu. Sia rujuk CCC, Catholic Q&A, search di internet, baca buku, etc. Some of them are those I learnt years ago, that I can't provide the actual references or website URL.

Quote :

Si Popcorn wrote:
Finally, you trying to admit that everything is not perfect in this world. … you really never teach them how to act unnecessarily during the concert. Who say you had? Tell me my friend! Nobody. It’s all out of your control. Most of our youth doesn’t know how to praise him accordingly. They simply tiru tiru gaya from any of the concert they saw. And its our duty to help them, rite?

How do you know that the way youth praise God nowadays is invalid? Kalo Pope pun approve kena saudara/i pula tidak?

Of course it's out of our control. We don't have supernatural powers. We're human beings. But can't you see youths are enjoying during concert. At least dorang tidak humban kerusi, swearing at obscene words or call each other names. Don't tell me that you're one of them yang duduk seorang di sana keseorangan bcoz you can't mix with them.

Concert is general OK. Lain lah kalo kami bilang CONCERTO, mmg la tidak sesuai ada teriak2. We already taught our youths to behave. But rules are made to be broken. We cannot stop them. Belia kita muda tapi pemikiran mereka sudah dewasa. So, pandai2 lah dorang berfikir kan? Setahu saya, tidak teruk pun jika mereka lompat, jerit, menari sewaktu praise. Maybe saudara/i ja yg fikir sebaliknya. Again, it's an OPTION - kalo mo duduk diam waktu konsert, duduk saja. Kalo mau ikut sama charismatically, apa salahnya kan?

You'll never know what's inside of every youth mind. Saudara/i pun ada bilang kan:

Quote :

Si Popcorn wrote:
Belia kita muda, susah mereka untuk menerima tamparan dari sesama belia.

Kalau kita tidak latih mereka untuk menerima tamparan, terutamanya dari belia sendiri, macam mana mereka akan menghadapi tamparan daripada org dewasa satu hari nanti?

Again; please read - It's up to us all, whether you choose to go contemporary or go contemplatively. Kita tiada hak mau kritik bagaimana org lain melakukan pujian dan penyembahan dgn cara mereka sendiri.

"He's more concerned on what our heart is saying."



Pax hominibus.

salam manis ya... emmm HT you have a very good source there... hehhehehe and popcorn.... odoi dogo... since you suruh sia kasi komen eeemmm susah juga ya sia mau kasi komen...
emmm cam ni lah maybe you(popcorn) didn't answer soalan itu secara khusus... hehhehehe... alah macam kita jawab SOALAN SPM juga lah kekadang ada kena dengan jawapan ada juga tidak tepat pada soalan tapi masih nampak macam jawapan dia... aaaa (macam sia ni) anyway hope you (popcorn) jangan mare ye....

alah korang(BS HT PC etc..) anggap ja aku ni macam si aznil tu lazer mulut... hehheheh...
anyway popcorn ok ba kan kalu ko...

God bless

I don't think I have to justify diz... anyway BS, I am a silent reader of this forum. Setiap penjuru & pelosok this website suda sa teroka, no matter how busy my life is. Well, How busy can one be? no matter what, there is owez a word called 'effort' (^_^). I only express my thots when I feel like doin so. Don't get me wrong, this forum is indeed 'ALIVE'. But I considered this thread as the most 'ALIVE' one due to the amount of 'reactions' that took place (Popcorn is one of the mangkin, the most efficient one I must say..hehe)

"semua benda hidup bertindak balas terhadap rangsangan, dan mangkin mempercepatkan tindak balas" - blame my science background on that...

This is what I have to say...it's good seeing u with emotions (amalkan selalu)

HT, many were called, but few were chosen...you're doin a great job with your facts. But be careful with the 'fine lines'of putting out the facts & being self-righteous. A piece of advice from a sister. Other than that, this is what I have to say, Let your YES be a YES and your NO be a NO (my prayers for you... )

PC... I still think you got a point. But ur points are all scattered here & there. From wat I see la kan.. u're trying to point out on how we can educate/teach this 'belia' on how to P&W without 'overdoing' it (I don't have to elabore more on what 'overdoing' means, do I? ).

Just my thots, i don't think we can change a person's way of praising or worshipping... for it is lead by the Holy Spirit (Amen!). However, there's a reasons why there are youth ministry, it's for us to grow together as brothers & sisters in Christ, spiritually, mentally. Perhaps maturity will grow along the way.

As for me, these ppl who organize this concert, they did their part... Whatever that is sown generously, will reap generously... Let God take care of the rest...Thy will be done according to his will.. (Amen!)

P/S: TS, I consider you as ralat paralaks...ble ka? hehehe... *kiddin'*

Hello..

This forum is the most alive; I agree on that. Anyway, semua kita pun sibuk dengan aktiviti seharian. Let it be at work or at home. Ada kalanya kita lupa untuk sembahyang, lupa untuk observe obligation days, etc kerana kesibukan kita. Satu ja yg Tuhan mau adalah kita sentiasa meletakkan dia first on our list. Betapa sibuknya dia mencipta, tapi Dia slalu ada masa utk mendengar apabila kita mau berbicara dengan Dia.

Ok. slightly off topic dah ni..Kita kembali ke studio..

HG - Now, you'll see most of my post are full of facts and verses. Those 'fine lines' I've mentioned doesn't even made me more righteous, FYI. Apa lagi self-righteous. Those are just plain facts that every Catholic needs to know. I just applying what I learnt throughout my journey with Christ. Apology kalo terlampau byk fakta sampai buli pening kepala. (hehe )

When signboards are along the way, you know where you are going to. TQ for your prayers..

Quote :

HaloGal wrote:
Just my thots, i don't think we can change a person's way of praising or worshipping... for it is lead by the Holy Spirit (Amen!).

This is what I and the rest are trying to clarify. Every person has his or her way of doing praise and worship. Some like it solemn, and some like it charismatically. We do not have the right to criticize how other people praise.

Sia kagum dgn pembicaraan sihat seperti ini. Tapi kalo dilihatkan, mcm mo kluar topik suda ni. I guess better create one more posting thread supaya admin senang sikit mo monitor which ones yg berkaitan dan mana yg tidak.

Kalo ada terkasar tu, dari hujung rambut ke hujung kaki sia minta maaf. Tidak ada manusia di bumi ini yg tidak pernah melakukan kesalahan dalam hidup mereka.

Pax.

eeeheeehh lllehhhh... HG boleh jadi teman pot pet sia lah niii ekekekke...

hhuhuhuuu... ok so now dari concert jadi bahan perbualan panas ehehehe i like it... but to conclude mari lah semua bagi pujian dan syukur kepada Tuhan kerana DIA lah maka segala hujah-hujah bernas berhambur keluar di lubuk hati dan pikiran kita huhu..

so rasa-rasa lah kan apa tajuk perdebatan kita seterusnya... hahahhaha bahaya ooo ni tapi as long the seeker dimana????... Boleh bah korang tuuuu...

So HT, BS, PC, HG kita bermaaf-maafan lah di hari yang mulia nii... MASIH raya ooo eehheeelehhhhh.. (i sound like azwan instead aznil ooo hehheheh)

jadik kalian yang memerlukan kan THE SEEKER ehheheehee kasi buzzz sia huhuhu...

Salam damai semua..

Hi Popcorn, inda marah ba, tengah relex la ni. Thanks to the Holy Spirit for guiding me in replying you. But, reply tatap reply ba kan..

Si Popcorn wrote:

Tetapi, kalau kita ingin cuba mengelak setiap persoalaan iman, maka lebih baik kita berhenti bercakap tentang DIA. Rite?

Si Popcorn wrote:

Have I said,” let’s stop talking about GOD?” NO! That’s why I am still here my dear friend.

Memang you didn't say "let's stop talking about GOD.." because now we're talking about FAITH. But you shouldn't say "tetapi, kalau kita ingin cuba mengelak setiap persoalaan iman, maka lebih baik kita berhenti bercakap tentang DIA." in the first place, sebab bagi sy, kalau sy mengelak setiap persoalan iman yg diutarakan oleh saudara/i, i should have been stop replying. But, your point is something for me and the rest of us to ponder upon and at the same time, my/our point is something for you and the rest of our fellow christians to ponder.

Si Popcorn wrote:

good..you are really good teacher. Joy, joyful, Joy to the world, Lina Joy….how about fun? Fun, funny, funniest, American funniest home video(laugh for the craze thing), Mr. Bean is funny but I can’t get any morale lesson from his act ….everything is for fun only. Ketawa sini ketawa sana lepas tu pulang kampis barait.

Saudara/i, janganlah kita menghakimi belia sampai begitu teruk sekali, ambil lah yg positif untuk kita bekalkan kepada mereka utk meneruskan pelayanan di gereja kita. Do not condemn them, but love them for who they are. (in general..)

ops..gotta go..tengah mengejar waktu ba ni but i'll be back to add more to my posting..meanwhile kita renung-renung kan..selamat beramah..

BS
p/s.. hey pop! lek ba ko, kita kwn ba kan?

Quote :

eeeheeehh lllehhhh... HG boleh jadi teman pot pet sia lah niii ekekekke...

Quote :

So HT, BS, PC, HG kita bermaaf-maafan lah di hari yang mulia nii... MASIH raya ooo eehheeelehhhhh.. (i sound like azwan instead aznil ooo hehheheh)

Quote :

(i sound like azwan instead aznil ooo hehheheh)

TS,

Ble bah kalau ko.. But then kan... I don't go for neither aznil nor azwan (sowyy) hahaha.. jan marah ah! raya satu bulan kama... lain hari sa minta maaf...

Dan kalau dilihat dari pandangan anak mata (chewah!)... sa tia terlibat secara langsung sama perdebatan diorg tu (maklumlah teda live telecast ba di negeri sa!) ... sa sekadar menyampuk ja... mana tau bisa membawa kepada kebaikan... kita hanya mampu merancang, DIA yang menentukan (I learn from the best!... muahaha)

Quote :

HG - Now, you'll see most of my post are full of facts and verses. Those 'fine lines' I've mentioned doesn't even made me more righteous, FYI. Apa lagi self-righteous. Those are just plain facts that every Catholic needs to know. I just applying what I learnt throughout my journey with Christ. Apology kalo terlampau byk fakta sampai buli pening kepala. (hehe )

HT,

I think u misunderstood on what I've written, about the 'fine lines' to be exact... Personally, I think u're doin a good job in doin so - putting the verses, facts, etc (Sound in the Word)...you don't have to apology on that... The 'fine lines' dat I meant is kan...it's like this, sumtimes when u put too much facts, u hv the tendency to sound like a self righteous person... (Note: I'm not saying that u are... I know u)... Just asking u to be careful...& that's about it...

Quote :

When signboards are along the way, you know where you are going to

1.) Ada juga sigboard yg ilang/patah/kana langgar kereta/vandalisma...
2.) kalau malam susa tu mo nampak signboard
3.) kadang2 kan... kita suda nampak tu signboard, tp buat2 mcam imej jatuh ke bintik buta...

I hope u'll somehow reach the destination u're tryin to reach - or shall I consider it as a pit stop hehe... Take a shorter route lehhh... They're waiting odi that!

Quote :

This is what I and the rest are trying to clarify

Mimang pun.. that's y I said, same destination (in this thread)... tp kamurang guna longer route... ada yang pusing2 di roundabout...complicating wat is simple... ada short-cut mo guna jalan jauh... sayang minyak ja! tiring sumore *giggles*

Quote :

Kalo ada terkasar tu, dari hujung rambut ke hujung kaki sia minta maaf. Tidak ada manusia di bumi ini yg tidak pernah melakukan kesalahan dalam hidup mereka.

Amalkan selalu.. ambik2lah iktibar sepena bulan Ramadhan...

**Thinking of Christmas tree in October**

i haven't been visiting this forum for awhile until today and..... wow..... sampai mo tejuling mata sia mo baca all the replies...

anyway, this time i'm not commenting on all the 'debates' we're having here, just want to share a personal experience i had during the concert... well... i kept this to myself all this while until recently when i shared it with a fellow sister in Christ, who talked me out to share this with others as well... sia tdk pasti korang akan percaya @ tdk but... i truly BELIEVE in what has happened... & since all these rooted from Konsert SYD2 in SHC, i think i might start off my sharing here...

well... here's what happened..

Masa sdg duduk2 with my fellow youths kan (time tu lampu 'dim'), perhatian sia tertumpu la sana atas stage.. tingu2 musicians setting up the instruments... then suddenly.....


I saw JESUS' face reflected on the SYD logo on stage......




dont ask me how i knew i saw Him, i just DID! it was a WONDERFUL moment for me... & next thing i knew, i was singing & dancing (& crying) throughout the whole concert. those who know me, dorang tau yg sia bukan jenis yg suka 'menari lompat2' & shout praises semasa konsert begitu. biasanya sia hanya ikut menyanyi, goyang sikit2, clap hands... & hanya jadi 'pemerhati' belia2 yg lebih hyperactive.

but..

that night was totally different for me...


i thought hard of letting this 'little secret' go sebab takut orang cakap yg sia hanya... imagining things... tapi.. like the fellow sister said 'i think you're gifted & you should share this with others'. & i know i'm not 'imagining things' because i had had another 'extraordinary encounter' in my church before. betapa bodohnya sia untuk tdk berkongsi sebelum ini hanya kerana 'takut akan tanggapan orang'..

i'm not trying out for some attention here, & i HOPE that this sharing would not lead to another 'point of debate' here, ok... if any of u think that this sharing should not be posted here, just let me know (no offence). sia ni tidak pandai menyusun kata2, jadi kalau ada yg part yg 'membingungkan' kamu, sory in advance...

GBU all....

Salam damai semua...

Apa kabar? Rindu saya? hehehe Nampaknya web kita tak ceria tanpa saya. heheheh....inda ba main main ja.

Well, hari ini saya tak mau komen lagi la pasal tu. Bagi saya kita semua mempunyai pendapat yang sama cuma cara kita berbeza untuk meluahkan sesuatu perkara itu. Kadang2 ada di antara kita yang lebih berterus terang dan ada yang lebih bertolak ansur kepada sensiviti sesetengah komuniti. Thats ok wat. And ketika berdebar kadang2 kita terlepas emosi ba kan. hehehehehe biasa la ba tu.

HT, BS, HG, NY and even myself suda menyatakan pendapat masing masing. Biasalah berdebat kan mcm tu. Sebelah pihak mesti menyakinkan pihak yang lain.

I stand my point yang pusing2 roundabout tu...and yours, kamu punya la. rite? If I am wrong then forgive me. Ok!

Anyway, I take positively apa yang saya dapat dari debat kita tu. Saya suka dengan cara saya seperti ini. Sememangnya tak akan sekapala dengan kamu. heheehe Walaupun kadang2 ayat tak teratur namun terima kasih kepada yang paham la. Mungkin kerana saya lebih terdedah kepada persoalan yang lebih "ganas" di luar sini. Terfikir saya, bolehkah belia kita bertahan dengan soalan seperti itu?

Well, kepada para pembaca, maafkan si popcorn kerana suka cari pasal ya. heheheheh Kalau ada yang belum puas hati tu, email ja la di hi_syd2@yahoo.com. Sekurang kurangnya saya telah membawa kamu semua untuk berfikir sekejap, sekurang kurangnya saya telah membawa HG dan TS dalam forum kita.

Bagi saya orang2 seperti HT, BS NY, HG and TS sangat2 diperlukan untuk menjadi pemimpin belia. Ini bukan sindiran tetapi apa yang betul2 saya mau sakap. I know two of you and she/he so commited to serve. Teruskan melayani.

I started this hot topic and now I want to end this with sincere apology! kita berjumpa di next topic.

Salam Damai semua....

Si Popcorn wrote:

..Bagi saya kita semua mempunyai pendapat yang sama cuma cara kita berbeza untuk meluahkan sesuatu perkara itu. Kadang2 ada di antara kita yang lebih berterus terang dan ada yang lebih bertolak ansur kepada sensiviti sesetengah komuniti.

..I stand my point yang pusing2 roundabout tu...and yours, kamu punya la. rite?

..Anyway, I take positively apa yang saya dapat dari debat kita tu. Saya suka dengan cara saya seperti ini. Sememangnya tak akan sekapala dengan kamu. heheehe Walaupun kadang2 ayat tak teratur namun terima kasih kepada yang paham la. Mungkin kerana saya lebih terdedah kepada persoalan yang lebih "ganas" di luar sini. Terfikir saya, bolehkah belia kita bertahan dengan soalan seperti itu?

Hi semua, before sy start, sy ingin anda baca quote di atas.

Sebenarnya ini la ba yg dari duuuuuuuuulu lg sy katakan. Masing-masing ada pendapat masing-masing. Sy sendiri pun kekal dgn pendapat sy seperti popcorn jgk, rite pop? Sama seperti pop, i feel comfortable the way i am and mmg la sampai dunia akhirat la kita tia akan sekepala sampai la bila kita akan berjumpa lagi di alam lain.

Anyway, seperti apa di fikiran pop, bolehkah belia kita bertahan dgn soalan seperti itu? Saya rasa, kalau kau, saya, HT, TS, HG dan yllen boleh bertahan, so the rest of the youths. Have faith.

- BS -